In the face of increasing environmental problems, we need to think comprehensively about what kind of future we want. August 15 as the National Ecology Day in China is a friendly reminder to the society to raise awareness of ecology and to gain a deeper understanding of ecological civilization.

What can we do? "It is important to have the sense that we can bring together culture and ecology together," said John Grim and Mary Evelyn Tucker, professors at the School of Environment, Yale University, who were interviewed by DeepChina during their visit to Xinjiang in June, 2024.

Question: How has Xinjiang changed in the last 20 years?

John Grim: I find it very interesting to think about what has changed from the first visit in 1993 to this visit. The most significant change I would point towards is we are now aware that our planet is now in the midst of thinking very seriously about climate, including climate change, climate emergencies. In 1993, we were not thinking about these things.

Now we come here in 2024, and it's really wonderful to see this kind of progress, where people's lives are made easier and there is employment and there's a sense of sharing cultural ideas with a larger world.

When we came now by plane this time rather than train, I saw so much more green. There was so much more irrigation and growing of crops that I'm sure agriculture is expanded in the region.

Well, my question is how is the irrigation and growing awareness of climate change? And are they thinking about what is happening in the next 20 or 30 years about water and irrigation? And I'm sure they are.

Question: What is the source of inspiration of combining culture and ecology?

Mary Evelyn Tucker: China is one of the few places in the world that can talk about culture, civilization, with the deep time of history. It is unique. It is something that the whole world needs to understand: keeping alive culture, tradition, opening it up.

And at the same time, our hope, our expectation is that this devotion to history is also a devotion to modernity. We are very concerned about what will happen for the future, not only climate change, but all the environmental problems, pollution, biodiversity loss, and so on.

That’s why we can bring together culture and ecology. So we're interested in how culture from around the world, like Confucianism or Buddhism or Daoism can have a basis for a new sense of ecology of how we appreciate the beauty around us.

Culture and ecology are a new nexus, a new synthesis.

Question: What makes the theory of ecological civilization that you focus on unique in China?

Mary Evelyn Tucker: China has the unique opportunity to integrate, to have harmony with Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, Islam and all ethnic peoples. All these religions, spiritualties, ethical systems have a sense of human-nature relations, for example, human and human, human and Tian(or Heaven), and also human and nature.

China has, in the world, the richest understandings of Heaven, Earth and human, Tian Ren He Yi (harmony between nature and humanity) in Chinese philosophy. We are part of the cosmos and earth. That is precisely what we need in our times. We call it not anthropocentric, human centered, but anthropocosmic. This integrated world view of human being as part of this huge universe is what China can offer.

Mary Evelyn Tucker: Ecological civilization is planetary. United States civilization, Western civilization is kind of limited within Europe and United States, Canada, but ecological civilization is planetary.

Almost nowhere in the world is this well understood as in China. Ecological civilization and the contribution of the cultures, worldviews of this great civilization are important. It's crucial for China, for the whole world.

There are people in the U.S. now talking about ecological civilization, very high level environmentalists. We hope to be a bridge between what China is doing and what is happening in the West as well.

Question: What are the relationships between the earth, human and nature?

John Grim: There's something very beautiful about those relationships. I think what happens in those relationships is the universe. The earth comes out of the universe. The universe speaks to the human, and the universe gives lessons to the humans about their beautiful relationship. And this beauty in relationship is manifested through differences.

For example, every one of us in this room is different. I look at those flowers in the morning, every one of them is different, and they grow up. It's not a smudge of flowers. They're beauteous, and different.

When I look at them and their differences, they each have their own voice, yet they let me commute with them. I look at them and they don't say: "No, my beauty is just for us," instead "My beauty is for you, for everyone."

Everything that comes out of the universe has spoken to different peoples around the world, with its own voice, its own subjective voice, its own individuality and interiority. So we need to understand first we are different from each other, we have our own particular ways, our own interior, then we share something very deep. And when we share that deeply, we come to something very beautiful.

That's really an interesting part of the universe, of the relationships between the earth, human and nature. And that I think, it’s part of what's profoundly drawing the humans forward in our future.

Question: How can traditional culture and modern development be integrated in China?

Mary Evelyn Tucker: Modern development may be very superficial without the depth of culture. If modernity and materialism is the only thing, what is life really about? So my suggestion might be: we integrate traditional culture and modern development.

Taking Xinjiang as an example, it has a combination of some of the oldest traditions in the world, Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, Islam and ethnicities. And the merging of all of them has taken place for thousands of years.

To be brief, Confucianism gives us this sense – we're part of Tian Ren He Yi, and we complete Heaven and Earth. The cosmos and earth is complete in our action for the earth and for future generations. It's a social system, but it's a cosmological system.

Buddhism teaches us we are not alone, we are not just individuals, everything is connected. So interdependence, interconnection is the teaching of Buddhism, and that's inspiring. We don't want to feel alone and isolated. Buddhism also has this incredible meditation, quiet silence, interiority that we need.

And Daoism has a tremendous sense of the integration of the Heaven, the macrocosm, and the body of the human. So the body of the whole universe and the body of human are integrated and they developed many of the healing medicines, TCM, traditional Chinese medicines.

Xinjian can offer the world this integration of religious traditions that helps us to see a future for the planet and for harmony with other people as well.

And now the Belt and Road Initiative is bringing together the world in new ways. I think the world is very interested in learning about what's happening here as a crossroads, a place where people from different parts of the world can meet each other and in the meeting understand themselves better and understand the world they live in better. So Xinjiang opens its arms to the world.

The article is excerpted from the interview with John Grim and Mary Evelyn Tucker, professor at the School of the Environment, Yale University.

The views don't necessarily reflect those of DeepChina.